New build - they pay for Big Mac, cut every corner they can, and expect a perfect fillet Mignon.

If so, valid point - you must use extended capacity tables in manufacturer product info guides to determine actual available capacity at design conditions. Comfort depends on dealing with both sensible and latent load. You can’t count on guesswork or generalization when getting duct sizing right.

Are you kidding?” my affluent homebuilders would challenge. Our Manual Js are around 1300-1500 sf/ton, but when it gets to the Manual S, the high efficient equipment becomes 800-1000 sf/ton; not the 10-15% oversize per code. Probably due to spa's/pool's/etc. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. There is nearly always some on every project. It's just one aspect of good design -- a step in the design process worth writing about. In retrofit, they know their home is a piece of crap, that's why you are there, and it's not your fault. I like using 2 stage or variable speed units, 16SEER and 96%AFUE. (I need to look that up) In other words, if the equipment is rated 2.25 tons sensible and 3.0 tons total (standard 75% sensible heat ratio), but the load is, for example, 2.5 tons sensible 2.8 tons total (90 % SHR) you'll be OK - the SHR can be increased at a slight reduction in total capacity.

There's still one area where manufacturers could do better. 63 0 obj <> endobj Yes. It is obviously not a generic ERV as I assumed. *Ȭ@ �#���t���c}&����S. It is important to note, however, that the depth of a member is influenced not only by the span but by such variables as spacing, loads, support As homes get better, and we bring sensible load down, latent doesn't stay the same it goes UP! We routinely (90+% of the time) downsize systems in the course of replacement, and we have yet to undersize a system. Using xyx ton/sq ft would only get you into the realm of what size you have, like 1 ton vs. 10 ton. Yesterday RH was about 84% temp was about 90 deg F. Usually only a few weeks out of the year are really  bad temperaure wise. We recommend AGAINST recovery. To size your air conditioning system, a useful rule of thumb is to divide the area of the space to be air-conditioned by 5, i.e. You simply order more and more triple scoop cones, always being sure to give one scoop to the dog from each cone, and continue until your weight is under control. But where the equipment is being developed and manufactured isn't what's constraining the high performance home market.

Thanks for your insightful comments. I guess what I'm saying is we should be trying to improve the language we use in the field if we're going to improve the way things are being done. A competent HVAC installer gets this by tweaking CFM / ton upward. I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of above-code programs at a national level as well as better enforcement of code-mandated load calcs (despite the prevalence of BS loads in many markets). That's is why we're still seeing markets where smaller equipment isn't stocked. You fix the house like they never belied was possible, and they are happy.

What concerns me is the the A&E that did the design apparantly did not size it properly. Availability of small enough equipment is mainly a problem for super-insulated homes and multi-unit buildings.

And then once you acknowledge that we do need some additional devices, do you need to keep micro thin slicing the AC sizing procedures since the latent load might actually be better addressed by a machine that is running? And in one recent situation the health problems had the client worried they were on the path to financial ruin. Yes, Emre, you understand correctly. The biggest reason why Manual S leads to 44k total capacity for 4-ton nominal system, etc., is because the AHRI test procedure for rated capacity stipulates 80F dry bulb and 67F wet bulb indoors, not the conditions anyone designs for. For a more detailed assessment of the cooling capacity required, please consult your air-conditioner supplier. Please read Google Privacy & Terms for more information about how you can control adserving and the information collected. Only emails and answers are saved in our archive. Unless you have a perfectly sealed house, controlled fresh air requires pressurization.

I did five calcs and showed him they were actually between 1150 - 1300 sq ft/ton.

Great info. THE REASON I ASKED IS THAT OUR LAST HOUSE, THAT WAS 3 MILES FROM THE PACIFIC OCEAN WAS 2000 SQ FT AND HAD A 2 TON A/C THAT DID A FINE JOB.

The economy is always testy, and utility rates head in one direction alone, so no one can afford the high costs of running an inefficient HVAC. And so, mechanics developed the "rule of thumb" that .22uF condensers are the size to use if you don’t know the value of the original condensers. Think about it. 1. The linset piping is sized for 3 tons. It is currently almost impossible to buy a traditional split system under 1.5 tons, and if you need something "off the shelf" 2 tons is the smallest in stock.

As you begin tracking air quality you will realize you want high quality filtration, distributed fresh air...". my house, I would use a 3 ton vs. 4 ton, because the 15-20% MJ oversizing. Looking to make the design and manufacturing of your products more agile?

We don't collect information from our users. 76-79f setpoints are not uncommon. Do either of you have case studies on how your installs have worked out, including why they were a better option than a standard high quality split systems? I've added a live link of that article to the list of related articles at the bottom of my article above. 3b) Confronted with a legitimate "3.2" ton load?

Thanks for helping us keep our "cool" with our clients. The question at hand now is, IS This “rule of thumb” valid?

And since we've started tracking indoor metrics, it's become obvious these houses are too wet. The curmudgeon in me says "no way!". 2. I know retrofit sales and design are not your wheelhouse, so you may have to just take my word on this. Here in dryer climates (Denver CO) evaporative cooling, helps cool neighborhoods too! Ventilation needs don't go away, and under worst case load the latent problem goes through the roof.

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New build - they pay for Big Mac, cut every corner they can, and expect a perfect fillet Mignon.

If so, valid point - you must use extended capacity tables in manufacturer product info guides to determine actual available capacity at design conditions. Comfort depends on dealing with both sensible and latent load. You can’t count on guesswork or generalization when getting duct sizing right.

Are you kidding?” my affluent homebuilders would challenge. Our Manual Js are around 1300-1500 sf/ton, but when it gets to the Manual S, the high efficient equipment becomes 800-1000 sf/ton; not the 10-15% oversize per code. Probably due to spa's/pool's/etc. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. There is nearly always some on every project. It's just one aspect of good design -- a step in the design process worth writing about. In retrofit, they know their home is a piece of crap, that's why you are there, and it's not your fault. I like using 2 stage or variable speed units, 16SEER and 96%AFUE. (I need to look that up) In other words, if the equipment is rated 2.25 tons sensible and 3.0 tons total (standard 75% sensible heat ratio), but the load is, for example, 2.5 tons sensible 2.8 tons total (90 % SHR) you'll be OK - the SHR can be increased at a slight reduction in total capacity.

There's still one area where manufacturers could do better. 63 0 obj <> endobj Yes. It is obviously not a generic ERV as I assumed. *Ȭ@ �#���t���c}&����S. It is important to note, however, that the depth of a member is influenced not only by the span but by such variables as spacing, loads, support As homes get better, and we bring sensible load down, latent doesn't stay the same it goes UP! We routinely (90+% of the time) downsize systems in the course of replacement, and we have yet to undersize a system. Using xyx ton/sq ft would only get you into the realm of what size you have, like 1 ton vs. 10 ton. Yesterday RH was about 84% temp was about 90 deg F. Usually only a few weeks out of the year are really  bad temperaure wise. We recommend AGAINST recovery. To size your air conditioning system, a useful rule of thumb is to divide the area of the space to be air-conditioned by 5, i.e. You simply order more and more triple scoop cones, always being sure to give one scoop to the dog from each cone, and continue until your weight is under control. But where the equipment is being developed and manufactured isn't what's constraining the high performance home market.

Thanks for your insightful comments. I guess what I'm saying is we should be trying to improve the language we use in the field if we're going to improve the way things are being done. A competent HVAC installer gets this by tweaking CFM / ton upward. I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of above-code programs at a national level as well as better enforcement of code-mandated load calcs (despite the prevalence of BS loads in many markets). That's is why we're still seeing markets where smaller equipment isn't stocked. You fix the house like they never belied was possible, and they are happy.

What concerns me is the the A&E that did the design apparantly did not size it properly. Availability of small enough equipment is mainly a problem for super-insulated homes and multi-unit buildings.

And then once you acknowledge that we do need some additional devices, do you need to keep micro thin slicing the AC sizing procedures since the latent load might actually be better addressed by a machine that is running? And in one recent situation the health problems had the client worried they were on the path to financial ruin. Yes, Emre, you understand correctly. The biggest reason why Manual S leads to 44k total capacity for 4-ton nominal system, etc., is because the AHRI test procedure for rated capacity stipulates 80F dry bulb and 67F wet bulb indoors, not the conditions anyone designs for. For a more detailed assessment of the cooling capacity required, please consult your air-conditioner supplier. Please read Google Privacy & Terms for more information about how you can control adserving and the information collected. Only emails and answers are saved in our archive. Unless you have a perfectly sealed house, controlled fresh air requires pressurization.

I did five calcs and showed him they were actually between 1150 - 1300 sq ft/ton.

Great info. THE REASON I ASKED IS THAT OUR LAST HOUSE, THAT WAS 3 MILES FROM THE PACIFIC OCEAN WAS 2000 SQ FT AND HAD A 2 TON A/C THAT DID A FINE JOB.

The economy is always testy, and utility rates head in one direction alone, so no one can afford the high costs of running an inefficient HVAC. And so, mechanics developed the "rule of thumb" that .22uF condensers are the size to use if you don’t know the value of the original condensers. Think about it. 1. The linset piping is sized for 3 tons. It is currently almost impossible to buy a traditional split system under 1.5 tons, and if you need something "off the shelf" 2 tons is the smallest in stock.

As you begin tracking air quality you will realize you want high quality filtration, distributed fresh air...". my house, I would use a 3 ton vs. 4 ton, because the 15-20% MJ oversizing. Looking to make the design and manufacturing of your products more agile?

We don't collect information from our users. 76-79f setpoints are not uncommon. Do either of you have case studies on how your installs have worked out, including why they were a better option than a standard high quality split systems? I've added a live link of that article to the list of related articles at the bottom of my article above. 3b) Confronted with a legitimate "3.2" ton load?

Thanks for helping us keep our "cool" with our clients. The question at hand now is, IS This “rule of thumb” valid?

And since we've started tracking indoor metrics, it's become obvious these houses are too wet. The curmudgeon in me says "no way!". 2. I know retrofit sales and design are not your wheelhouse, so you may have to just take my word on this. Here in dryer climates (Denver CO) evaporative cooling, helps cool neighborhoods too! Ventilation needs don't go away, and under worst case load the latent problem goes through the roof.

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New build - they pay for Big Mac, cut every corner they can, and expect a perfect fillet Mignon.

If so, valid point - you must use extended capacity tables in manufacturer product info guides to determine actual available capacity at design conditions. Comfort depends on dealing with both sensible and latent load. You can’t count on guesswork or generalization when getting duct sizing right.

Are you kidding?” my affluent homebuilders would challenge. Our Manual Js are around 1300-1500 sf/ton, but when it gets to the Manual S, the high efficient equipment becomes 800-1000 sf/ton; not the 10-15% oversize per code. Probably due to spa's/pool's/etc. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. There is nearly always some on every project. It's just one aspect of good design -- a step in the design process worth writing about. In retrofit, they know their home is a piece of crap, that's why you are there, and it's not your fault. I like using 2 stage or variable speed units, 16SEER and 96%AFUE. (I need to look that up) In other words, if the equipment is rated 2.25 tons sensible and 3.0 tons total (standard 75% sensible heat ratio), but the load is, for example, 2.5 tons sensible 2.8 tons total (90 % SHR) you'll be OK - the SHR can be increased at a slight reduction in total capacity.

There's still one area where manufacturers could do better. 63 0 obj <> endobj Yes. It is obviously not a generic ERV as I assumed. *Ȭ@ �#���t���c}&����S. It is important to note, however, that the depth of a member is influenced not only by the span but by such variables as spacing, loads, support As homes get better, and we bring sensible load down, latent doesn't stay the same it goes UP! We routinely (90+% of the time) downsize systems in the course of replacement, and we have yet to undersize a system. Using xyx ton/sq ft would only get you into the realm of what size you have, like 1 ton vs. 10 ton. Yesterday RH was about 84% temp was about 90 deg F. Usually only a few weeks out of the year are really  bad temperaure wise. We recommend AGAINST recovery. To size your air conditioning system, a useful rule of thumb is to divide the area of the space to be air-conditioned by 5, i.e. You simply order more and more triple scoop cones, always being sure to give one scoop to the dog from each cone, and continue until your weight is under control. But where the equipment is being developed and manufactured isn't what's constraining the high performance home market.

Thanks for your insightful comments. I guess what I'm saying is we should be trying to improve the language we use in the field if we're going to improve the way things are being done. A competent HVAC installer gets this by tweaking CFM / ton upward. I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of above-code programs at a national level as well as better enforcement of code-mandated load calcs (despite the prevalence of BS loads in many markets). That's is why we're still seeing markets where smaller equipment isn't stocked. You fix the house like they never belied was possible, and they are happy.

What concerns me is the the A&E that did the design apparantly did not size it properly. Availability of small enough equipment is mainly a problem for super-insulated homes and multi-unit buildings.

And then once you acknowledge that we do need some additional devices, do you need to keep micro thin slicing the AC sizing procedures since the latent load might actually be better addressed by a machine that is running? And in one recent situation the health problems had the client worried they were on the path to financial ruin. Yes, Emre, you understand correctly. The biggest reason why Manual S leads to 44k total capacity for 4-ton nominal system, etc., is because the AHRI test procedure for rated capacity stipulates 80F dry bulb and 67F wet bulb indoors, not the conditions anyone designs for. For a more detailed assessment of the cooling capacity required, please consult your air-conditioner supplier. Please read Google Privacy & Terms for more information about how you can control adserving and the information collected. Only emails and answers are saved in our archive. Unless you have a perfectly sealed house, controlled fresh air requires pressurization.

I did five calcs and showed him they were actually between 1150 - 1300 sq ft/ton.

Great info. THE REASON I ASKED IS THAT OUR LAST HOUSE, THAT WAS 3 MILES FROM THE PACIFIC OCEAN WAS 2000 SQ FT AND HAD A 2 TON A/C THAT DID A FINE JOB.

The economy is always testy, and utility rates head in one direction alone, so no one can afford the high costs of running an inefficient HVAC. And so, mechanics developed the "rule of thumb" that .22uF condensers are the size to use if you don’t know the value of the original condensers. Think about it. 1. The linset piping is sized for 3 tons. It is currently almost impossible to buy a traditional split system under 1.5 tons, and if you need something "off the shelf" 2 tons is the smallest in stock.

As you begin tracking air quality you will realize you want high quality filtration, distributed fresh air...". my house, I would use a 3 ton vs. 4 ton, because the 15-20% MJ oversizing. Looking to make the design and manufacturing of your products more agile?

We don't collect information from our users. 76-79f setpoints are not uncommon. Do either of you have case studies on how your installs have worked out, including why they were a better option than a standard high quality split systems? I've added a live link of that article to the list of related articles at the bottom of my article above. 3b) Confronted with a legitimate "3.2" ton load?

Thanks for helping us keep our "cool" with our clients. The question at hand now is, IS This “rule of thumb” valid?

And since we've started tracking indoor metrics, it's become obvious these houses are too wet. The curmudgeon in me says "no way!". 2. I know retrofit sales and design are not your wheelhouse, so you may have to just take my word on this. Here in dryer climates (Denver CO) evaporative cooling, helps cool neighborhoods too! Ventilation needs don't go away, and under worst case load the latent problem goes through the roof.

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condenser sizing rules of thumb

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Sometimes you have to guess because there's not a house to test yet.

Can you put up a working link to the article about the 3 ton system not being 3 tons? Your source of knowledge about the world of building science, home energy efficiency, green jobs and more.

0 I don't know why they don't get more attention. It appears as if State Codes are written to upsize rather than pick the closest size because they feel that if the temperature should ever rise a degree or two above the 72F set point that every one will expire. I didn't choose them due to concerns about availability of local contractors to service them. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. ENERGY STAR Version 2 doesn't require much in the way of checking Manual … Google use cookies for serving our ads and handling visitor statistics. I agree that MJ overstates more than 15% on super insulated homes and homes with lots of thermal mass. Thumb rule : Condenser water flow = Flow through cooling tower = 3 to 3.5 USGPM / TR. Questions: Rule of thumb prescriptive hypotheticals from a building science book are good to understand so you don't make catastrophically dumb mistakes, but you simply can't remove 100% of all risk, unless all you do is armchair hypotheses.

Mini-splits are another option I suppose. *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. However, if this causes the valve body to be significantly less than the line size, which would reduce the valve’s effective Cv.

Proper AC sizing won’t make it run. Hint: the house is a system.

It could be more than that if that number falls between sizes, but you get the idea. So, I think that there's usually enough design margin to downsize the A/C at least 20% without too much hassle. Designing an HVAC system starts with proper sizing. 3. That's what I wrote in my last article. Also, maintaining a positive pressure balance in a cold climate is generally a bad idea. For typical homes in most of the country, 1.5-2 tons is not grossly oversized. Air conditioner sizing rules of thumb must die. Rapidly explore innovative design options to reduce development time and expense, all within the Creo design environment. To the extent that IAQ issues are internally generated (odor, moisture, pet dander, dust, smoke, cooking, voc's, etc. Work with client to seek and destroy those two tenths (or more)...find some low hanging fruit such as air infiltration tightening, extra attic insulation, duct sealing, internal gain reduction, window solar filming / screening. full-height glass windows), Windows orientated towards the sun (i.e.

Only 6% of our summer hours are near the design conditions that make an AC run the way we crow about. Look at the square feet per ton number you get to see if you're in the ballpark. I mentioned it briefly in my article on Friday, and you're right. 7��U���x0}������u���N�X�lC3�N����\ƭ�tS�4岚�׋e ��MX� O�SP#�V�����E�q]�ʼq��~�'�o5>�v��zq1�C��fI¢�5��E^ �4���,� then do not apply this rule of thumb. Putting in an infiltration rate that's too high is one of the many ways to cheat on Manual J.

endstream endobj startxref

Approximate make-up water requirement = 1% to 1.5% of the water flow. That's a sad but all too common story, Tim. NOTE: Comments are moderated. I don't know whether it would be sufficiently effective for a large house. 2. Air Conditioner Sizing Rules of Thumb Must Die, 3 Reasons Your 3 Ton Air Conditioner Isn't Really 3 Tons. Even better, USE the blower door test, ideally conducted in the presence of the astonished homeowner, to effect reductions in infiltration to move the needle a notch or two in the tightward direction. Right jnow there is no coil in the air handler. Whole-house fans are another way. THIS HOUSE IS 11 MILES FROM THE OCEAN AND IS 1800 SQ FT. A lot of times, your AC contractor would want to size your AC using the rule of thumb.

Since most homeowners can't completely gut and abate their homes, our approach has been to design solutions that fit client problems and budget. It's a bit overkill in my area, but the next Carrier system down from it, 25VNA8, has horrid EER. Air-conditioners are designed to control both the air temperature and humidity. I've written about this before. He said I had to adjust my numbers.

A 4 to unit delivers 41K sensible, 44K total. Simplistic answer? I structure all our price books straight out of the AHRI directory that lists ALL certified equipment combinations, not just the random / popular ones manufacturers list for my "benefit" some combinations actually exceed nominal tonnage, and in many cases those high-achieving combos are at the upper end of the efficiency spectrum, as well.

New build - they pay for Big Mac, cut every corner they can, and expect a perfect fillet Mignon.

If so, valid point - you must use extended capacity tables in manufacturer product info guides to determine actual available capacity at design conditions. Comfort depends on dealing with both sensible and latent load. You can’t count on guesswork or generalization when getting duct sizing right.

Are you kidding?” my affluent homebuilders would challenge. Our Manual Js are around 1300-1500 sf/ton, but when it gets to the Manual S, the high efficient equipment becomes 800-1000 sf/ton; not the 10-15% oversize per code. Probably due to spa's/pool's/etc. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. There is nearly always some on every project. It's just one aspect of good design -- a step in the design process worth writing about. In retrofit, they know their home is a piece of crap, that's why you are there, and it's not your fault. I like using 2 stage or variable speed units, 16SEER and 96%AFUE. (I need to look that up) In other words, if the equipment is rated 2.25 tons sensible and 3.0 tons total (standard 75% sensible heat ratio), but the load is, for example, 2.5 tons sensible 2.8 tons total (90 % SHR) you'll be OK - the SHR can be increased at a slight reduction in total capacity.

There's still one area where manufacturers could do better. 63 0 obj <> endobj Yes. It is obviously not a generic ERV as I assumed. *Ȭ@ �#���t���c}&����S. It is important to note, however, that the depth of a member is influenced not only by the span but by such variables as spacing, loads, support As homes get better, and we bring sensible load down, latent doesn't stay the same it goes UP! We routinely (90+% of the time) downsize systems in the course of replacement, and we have yet to undersize a system. Using xyx ton/sq ft would only get you into the realm of what size you have, like 1 ton vs. 10 ton. Yesterday RH was about 84% temp was about 90 deg F. Usually only a few weeks out of the year are really  bad temperaure wise. We recommend AGAINST recovery. To size your air conditioning system, a useful rule of thumb is to divide the area of the space to be air-conditioned by 5, i.e. You simply order more and more triple scoop cones, always being sure to give one scoop to the dog from each cone, and continue until your weight is under control. But where the equipment is being developed and manufactured isn't what's constraining the high performance home market.

Thanks for your insightful comments. I guess what I'm saying is we should be trying to improve the language we use in the field if we're going to improve the way things are being done. A competent HVAC installer gets this by tweaking CFM / ton upward. I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of above-code programs at a national level as well as better enforcement of code-mandated load calcs (despite the prevalence of BS loads in many markets). That's is why we're still seeing markets where smaller equipment isn't stocked. You fix the house like they never belied was possible, and they are happy.

What concerns me is the the A&E that did the design apparantly did not size it properly. Availability of small enough equipment is mainly a problem for super-insulated homes and multi-unit buildings.

And then once you acknowledge that we do need some additional devices, do you need to keep micro thin slicing the AC sizing procedures since the latent load might actually be better addressed by a machine that is running? And in one recent situation the health problems had the client worried they were on the path to financial ruin. Yes, Emre, you understand correctly. The biggest reason why Manual S leads to 44k total capacity for 4-ton nominal system, etc., is because the AHRI test procedure for rated capacity stipulates 80F dry bulb and 67F wet bulb indoors, not the conditions anyone designs for. For a more detailed assessment of the cooling capacity required, please consult your air-conditioner supplier. Please read Google Privacy & Terms for more information about how you can control adserving and the information collected. Only emails and answers are saved in our archive. Unless you have a perfectly sealed house, controlled fresh air requires pressurization.

I did five calcs and showed him they were actually between 1150 - 1300 sq ft/ton.

Great info. THE REASON I ASKED IS THAT OUR LAST HOUSE, THAT WAS 3 MILES FROM THE PACIFIC OCEAN WAS 2000 SQ FT AND HAD A 2 TON A/C THAT DID A FINE JOB.

The economy is always testy, and utility rates head in one direction alone, so no one can afford the high costs of running an inefficient HVAC. And so, mechanics developed the "rule of thumb" that .22uF condensers are the size to use if you don’t know the value of the original condensers. Think about it. 1. The linset piping is sized for 3 tons. It is currently almost impossible to buy a traditional split system under 1.5 tons, and if you need something "off the shelf" 2 tons is the smallest in stock.

As you begin tracking air quality you will realize you want high quality filtration, distributed fresh air...". my house, I would use a 3 ton vs. 4 ton, because the 15-20% MJ oversizing. Looking to make the design and manufacturing of your products more agile?

We don't collect information from our users. 76-79f setpoints are not uncommon. Do either of you have case studies on how your installs have worked out, including why they were a better option than a standard high quality split systems? I've added a live link of that article to the list of related articles at the bottom of my article above. 3b) Confronted with a legitimate "3.2" ton load?

Thanks for helping us keep our "cool" with our clients. The question at hand now is, IS This “rule of thumb” valid?

And since we've started tracking indoor metrics, it's become obvious these houses are too wet. The curmudgeon in me says "no way!". 2. I know retrofit sales and design are not your wheelhouse, so you may have to just take my word on this. Here in dryer climates (Denver CO) evaporative cooling, helps cool neighborhoods too! Ventilation needs don't go away, and under worst case load the latent problem goes through the roof.

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